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[Music]

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welcome back everybody it is great to be

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here as always lovely to see everybody

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here in the live chat

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all i ask as usual if you just keep it

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cordial and polite then that'd be great

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um

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normally my interviews go for around an

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hour but some of you may have seen that

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i'm actually carrying a an injury at the

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moment i've torn a calf muscle so as i'm

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sat now i'm not in too much bad pain

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i've took some painkillers but if it

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gets really bad you know i've mentioned

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to matthew as well that we may go a

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little bit shorter but we'll just see

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how we go so i just wanted to put that

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out there

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um so yeah let's not waste any more time

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um i'd like to welcome my guest today

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matthew roberts

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matthew how are you good how are you

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vinny thank you for having me i'm not

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bad at all thank you thank you for being

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here um i think the best thing to do

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really is just to give a bit of a

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background on yourself if you don't mind

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which led you to sort of joining uh the

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military if you don't mind

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um yeah well uh what led me to joining

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the military is that i i liked i really

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liked traveling

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and um

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[Music]

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i thought to myself well you know i i

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was gonna join the military so i figured

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what branch of the military is going to

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have me traveling the most and i being

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on a big gray floating ship

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um seemed to be the best option you know

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because you're constantly moving um yeah

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and and so i i definitely loved seeing

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the world and traveling so that was that

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was kind of why i i chose the navy

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um and i and i chose i i wanted to

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choose an interesting job right i didn't

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i didn't want to just do anything um

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that that you would typically think of

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as being

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um

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you know a naval

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seafaring job

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so i decided to go into cryptology

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and that's how i became a naval

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cryptologist

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so what does that entail exactly

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um well it entails quite a bit of school

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um to learn how to do your job it's it's

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very complex

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i work with a lot of

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complex equipment

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um

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you know and it's just uh it's a very

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highly technical job and it's uh it's a

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subset within intelligence um

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signals intelligence is what i what i

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so

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before you joined the military with

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regards to the ufo subject what was your

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level of interest if any at all

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um i had i had absolutely no interest in

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it whatsoever to be honest um

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you know i would see like ancient aliens

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come on tv and i kind of rolled my eyes

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and

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channel uh

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any time i saw someone bringing it up it

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was just like okay time to walk away now

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um

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i i have no interest in this whatsoever

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and i thought it was you know just the

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the realm of tinfoil hats and conspiracy

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theories i didn't think that there was

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anything to it

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um

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and and i

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didn't think it was at all interesting

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to be honest i i just

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me and ufos were not something that went

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together

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that's understandable and i've met a lot

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of people that are like that and then

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obviously since

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they've maybe had an experience or a

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sighting it's you know it's a paradigm

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change to them so oh yeah i can

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understand that

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so let's let's lead up to kind of what

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happened in 2015 um i mean everybody's

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familiar i think with the

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the gimbal and the the go fast videos

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but um am i writing saying that you were

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stationed at the time in off of oceana

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in that kind of training range

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yes uh yeah we were we were

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we were the ship was actually stationed

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at a norfolk virginia at the time um and

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so we were doing our work up cycle and

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that

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entailed kind of going down

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uh by florida

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like we often did because we were an

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aircraft carrier i mean we our job was

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to capture planes

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um catch them and

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catch and release all day long that's

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what we would do pilots pilot

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proficiency training they would come and

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land on the deck um and and we would do

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that kind of thing all day long but this

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time we were doing our workups our

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workup cycle getting ready for

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deployment so

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you know they put you in these

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situations where they say okay you're

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off the coast of this or that you know

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hostile

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country

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and then they throw these scenarios at

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you to see how are you going to react

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and they'll test the entire ship right

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they'll uh will go into

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you know play acting scenarios of you

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know there's a missile inbound port side

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and it's just hit the side of the ship

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and all the way from the the skipper

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down to

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the lowliest seaman on the ship you know

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how how are you going to react to that

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and how well are you going to do it in

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terms of

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flooding putting out fires um

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getting the word out that this has

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happened to you that you've been

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attacked um

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you know and it's just

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and and that's what we were doing out

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there um at the time

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and did you have a good relationship

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with a lot of different people on the

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ship you know whether it be the pilots

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and things like that was it was it like

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a group thing or was it was it quite

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separated

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um you know it was really it was quite

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separated for me

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uh in my particular job

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uh so we worked

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uh in a skiff on the ship

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um

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which

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everybody's heard a lot about this with

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you know on the news with the trump

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documents and things like that but

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but a skiff is just where you

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keep sensitive compartmented classified

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information um and so that was where i

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worked

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and of course not everyone had access to

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this space there was you know an access

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list so it was very tightly controlled

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who was coming and going so i didn't

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i didn't really see a lot of people

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throughout the course of my day i just

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kind of stayed in there

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um but and i would communicate from

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there whatever i needed to communicate

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to people

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but the pilots i did see them

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coming and going from the flight deck

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all the time

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you know um

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my space just so happened to be by one

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of the ready rooms so

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i would see pilots coming and going all

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day long and i

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and in fact when when the two pilots

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that came forward on the show

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unidentified when they came forward i

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was watching that show and i was like oh

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yeah i recognize them i i remember them

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because i would see them in the hallways

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all the time you know

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coming and going from the ready rooms

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so how many squadrons did you have

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because obviously ryan graves from the

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red rippers um was there more than one

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sort of

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group on there um

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you know i i didn't even really get into

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it that much i don't i i don't really

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know uh how many squadrons we had we had

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like a hilo squadron we had the fighters

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obviously then

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uh a marine squadron um

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i don't know there might have been more

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that i might be leaving someone out i

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don't know

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that's fine no problem at all so let's

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bring it right up to the day um or

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around the time of of these

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interactions with these objects

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how did you first hear about it and what

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was the kind of general buzz uh

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surrounding it like

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um yeah i i was you know i was we were

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sitting in our space and uh we had just

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finished the up cycle so

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we had someone in our space a handful of

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people that had come on board to

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evaluate us specifically and how we

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reacted to things

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um

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and so we had just finished up that

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portion

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um to my knowledge the entire

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um com2x was was finished it was over

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um

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and there weren't to be any more

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exercises so we were just kind of

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waiting for our grade um and to be

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debriefed on as to how well we did

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um i knew we did well obviously i mean i

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was

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but uh

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so as we're sitting there waiting

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um

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one of my buddies comes in and he worked

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in um

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well he worked in civic

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which is

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he was an intelligence specialist and so

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he

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that on a daily basis

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um

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and so he comes in and he says hey

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you know check this out

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um

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and so he shows me where it is that the

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file is and i go onto my computer and i

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open it up

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and i take a look at it and um that was

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it was the gimbal footage

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um

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and the night before i know that we had

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launched

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uh

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launched some jets and i wasn't sure why

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i remember cli i was climbing into my

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rack and i heard that they were

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launching jets and i thought i thought

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i thought the the exercises were over

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i'm not sure

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what's going on you know but uh

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so that that was what was going on

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apparently

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um

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and i of course i could not

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watch this footage enough it was there

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was there were

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some files there right and among them

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were the gimbal

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and the go fast footage uh

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and so i find i found myself just

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you know watching this footage over and

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over again because it was just to me

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kind of the most amazing thing i had

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ever seen in my life you know i've seen

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i've seen

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footage you know shot from gun cameras

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uh i was very familiar with that um

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and so when i saw this it just kind of

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didn't make any sense the way it was

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flying um

285
00:11:08,389 --> 00:11:05,760
and it didn't seem to have

286
00:11:11,590 --> 00:11:08,399
you know the regular kind of uh flight

287
00:11:13,190 --> 00:11:11,600
surfaces that you would see

288
00:11:15,910 --> 00:11:13,200
um

289
00:11:18,790 --> 00:11:15,920
and so uh i i think i kind of

290
00:11:21,350 --> 00:11:18,800
immediately knew what it was uh and it

291
00:11:23,110 --> 00:11:21,360
was kind of a it was a very big shock to

292
00:11:24,630 --> 00:11:23,120
me because

293
00:11:25,990 --> 00:11:24,640
because you know i had no interest in

294
00:11:28,470 --> 00:11:26,000
this whatsoever

295
00:11:31,509 --> 00:11:28,480
didn't think it was real uh didn't

296
00:11:34,710 --> 00:11:31,519
really care and then here it is

297
00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:34,720
smacking me in the face you know yeah

298
00:11:37,750 --> 00:11:36,240
um

299
00:11:39,829 --> 00:11:37,760
and so that was

300
00:11:43,430 --> 00:11:39,839
that was a very eye-opening

301
00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:43,440
moment for me yeah i can imagine there's

302
00:11:47,269 --> 00:11:45,200
a lot of been a lot of talk recently

303
00:11:49,350 --> 00:11:47,279
about the actual length of the original

304
00:11:51,269 --> 00:11:49,360
footage captured of the gimbal in

305
00:11:52,629 --> 00:11:51,279
particular with people saying that there

306
00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:52,639
are still another four minutes of

307
00:11:57,030 --> 00:11:55,120
footage that is not out in the public

308
00:11:59,670 --> 00:11:57,040
did you see a longer version than what

309
00:12:01,829 --> 00:11:59,680
is currently out there i did not no i

310
00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:01,839
did not see a longer version i the clip

311
00:12:07,990 --> 00:12:05,360
i saw was the the exact same clip exact

312
00:12:10,470 --> 00:12:08,000
same length um so it had been cut down

313
00:12:11,829 --> 00:12:10,480
to that by the time i saw it

314
00:12:14,230 --> 00:12:11,839
um

315
00:12:16,389 --> 00:12:14,240
so so i i wasn't aware of any

316
00:12:18,790 --> 00:12:16,399
longer version but i'm

317
00:12:21,590 --> 00:12:18,800
you know i'm sure that there not only

318
00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:21,600
are longer versions but other

319
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:24,560
other videos as well i'm i'm sure of it

320
00:12:30,150 --> 00:12:26,800
i mean i cuz i i knew that

321
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:30,160
i i had heard that the pilots were

322
00:12:34,790 --> 00:12:31,200
sharing

323
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:34,800
videos kind of amongst themselves uh of

324
00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:37,200
of what was happening so

325
00:12:41,269 --> 00:12:40,160
there's more i'm i'm sure of that

326
00:12:43,110 --> 00:12:41,279
yeah

327
00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:43,120
excellent because i think with the the

328
00:12:47,110 --> 00:12:45,360
way the pilots are describing the object

329
00:12:49,030 --> 00:12:47,120
and they're looking at the situational

330
00:12:52,069 --> 00:12:49,040
awareness screed saying there's

331
00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:52,079
obviously there's a fleet of them

332
00:12:55,829 --> 00:12:53,680
yeah i can just imagine that if that

333
00:12:57,590 --> 00:12:55,839
footage was was made available that it

334
00:12:59,190 --> 00:12:57,600
would definitely change the conversation

335
00:13:01,670 --> 00:12:59,200
and even further

336
00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:01,680
so uh yeah that would be amazing um just

337
00:13:04,710 --> 00:13:02,959
want to highlight this question here

338
00:13:06,870 --> 00:13:04,720
from your name she says how clear was

339
00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:06,880
the footage that you saw is it the same

340
00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:09,680
version that was made public yes yes it

341
00:13:15,190 --> 00:13:11,360
was

342
00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:15,200
conversation isn't there about the

343
00:13:19,350 --> 00:13:16,639
possibility of it just being another

344
00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:19,360
f-18 shot from a certain angle where

345
00:13:22,550 --> 00:13:20,880
you don't see the kind of thermal heat

346
00:13:24,949 --> 00:13:22,560
coming off of it so what do you say to

347
00:13:27,269 --> 00:13:24,959
things like that i i tell them that

348
00:13:29,509 --> 00:13:27,279
that's an impossibility i mean the

349
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:29,519
pilot's essay is going to tell them if

350
00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:32,320
that's uh if that's a you know friendly

351
00:13:36,150 --> 00:13:34,480
f-18 or not

352
00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:36,160
um

353
00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:39,440
and and you know it's just

354
00:13:45,189 --> 00:13:41,680
i when i hear people say that

355
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:45,199
it just bothers me to no end because

356
00:13:49,509 --> 00:13:47,600
it it implies that

357
00:13:52,069 --> 00:13:49,519
we don't know what we're doing in the

358
00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:52,079
navy right and which of course is

359
00:13:57,269 --> 00:13:54,720
ridiculous we know exactly what's going

360
00:13:59,269 --> 00:13:57,279
on around the ship right and so if we

361
00:14:01,189 --> 00:13:59,279
have an unknown

362
00:14:03,670 --> 00:14:01,199
something like that escalates very

363
00:14:06,150 --> 00:14:03,680
quickly right we don't we're not just

364
00:14:07,750 --> 00:14:06,160
like oh unknown flying around the ship

365
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:07,760
turn out the lights if you're the last

366
00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:09,279
one in the room and let's all hit the

367
00:14:13,509 --> 00:14:11,680
sack you know i mean that's not the way

368
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:13,519
that happens this is this is a

369
00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:17,199
multi-billion dollar aircraft uh or we

370
00:14:19,990 --> 00:14:18,000
have

371
00:14:21,590 --> 00:14:20,000
billions of dollars for the aircraft on

372
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:21,600
board not to mention

373
00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:23,680
the ship itself i mean that's a lot of

374
00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:25,360
money um

375
00:14:29,350 --> 00:14:27,760
riding on that and not to mention human

376
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:29,360
life so

377
00:14:33,829 --> 00:14:32,160
it just it's it's absolutely ridiculous

378
00:14:36,470 --> 00:14:33,839
to me when people say

379
00:14:38,870 --> 00:14:36,480
or imply that that we

380
00:14:40,710 --> 00:14:38,880
somehow wouldn't know what that is right

381
00:14:42,629 --> 00:14:40,720
i mean that's why the pilots went up

382
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:42,639
there to take a look to begin with

383
00:14:46,150 --> 00:14:44,639
because we didn't know what it was

384
00:14:47,509 --> 00:14:46,160
so that that's what they were doing out

385
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:47,519
there

386
00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:49,920
and so it's just uh it's just ridiculous

387
00:14:53,430 --> 00:14:51,440
these people like

388
00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:53,440
mick west that imply

389
00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:54,639
otherwise

390
00:14:58,550 --> 00:14:56,720
you know it's just the dumbest thing

391
00:14:59,990 --> 00:14:58,560
i've ever heard

392
00:15:01,509 --> 00:15:00,000
so you know you say that the pilots were

393
00:15:02,710 --> 00:15:01,519
sent out there specifically to look for

394
00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:02,720
these things does that mean there would

395
00:15:07,990 --> 00:15:05,920
be other data so like radar oh yeah

396
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:08,000
which yeah for sure been made public

397
00:15:11,509 --> 00:15:10,160
either so you know

398
00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:11,519
if we did have all this data it

399
00:15:14,949 --> 00:15:12,880
certainly would paint a better picture

400
00:15:16,150 --> 00:15:14,959
for everybody to kind of really get to

401
00:15:18,069 --> 00:15:16,160
know what it

402
00:15:21,430 --> 00:15:18,079
potentially could be certainly what it

403
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:21,440
wasn't you know right exactly yeah yeah

404
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:23,279
and the pilots going up there they would

405
00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:25,199
have seen that this is a jet

406
00:15:30,230 --> 00:15:26,560
right this is

407
00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:30,240
a a jet within their uh their scopes

408
00:15:34,870 --> 00:15:32,480
that they're looking at right

409
00:15:36,710 --> 00:15:34,880
they've seen that a million times by

410
00:15:37,829 --> 00:15:36,720
this point they're not going to be

411
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:37,839
fooled

412
00:15:41,350 --> 00:15:40,480
into thinking a jet is is something it's

413
00:15:43,430 --> 00:15:41,360
not

414
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:43,440
at this point they're very well trained

415
00:15:45,509 --> 00:15:44,639
in that way

416
00:15:47,110 --> 00:15:45,519
so

417
00:15:49,110 --> 00:15:47,120
you know having accumulated as many

418
00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:49,120
flight hours as you would have to have

419
00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:50,720
in order to

420
00:15:56,310 --> 00:15:51,600
be

421
00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:56,320
also taking off and landing on a carrier

422
00:16:00,790 --> 00:15:58,320
which is not easy

423
00:16:04,389 --> 00:16:02,150
you know you you

424
00:16:08,069 --> 00:16:04,399
you pretty much know what things are

425
00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:08,079
um when you see them

426
00:16:11,350 --> 00:16:09,839
absolutely and

427
00:16:12,870 --> 00:16:11,360
i just wanted to quickly touch upon the

428
00:16:14,790 --> 00:16:12,880
go fast video as well because if i'm

429
00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:14,800
right and saying that was shot the same

430
00:16:18,550 --> 00:16:16,079
day

431
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:18,560
uh wasn't it uh it

432
00:16:23,189 --> 00:16:20,880
you know it may have been i'm i'm not

433
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:23,199
exactly sure it may have been different

434
00:16:27,269 --> 00:16:25,040
days i don't know so this this whole

435
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:27,279
event right uh

436
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:29,440
went on for several days this wasn't

437
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:32,480
just a one-day event um

438
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:34,560
and so that's that's another reason why

439
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:36,720
i have a problem with some of these

440
00:16:40,870 --> 00:16:38,560
explanations like people want to say

441
00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:40,880
it's drones or

442
00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:42,880
or whatever and i don't

443
00:16:45,269 --> 00:16:44,160
i don't know how you would have that

444
00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:45,279
kind of

445
00:16:52,389 --> 00:16:48,480
battery life or fuel on board that for

446
00:16:53,910 --> 00:16:52,399
several days you're doing this um

447
00:16:54,949 --> 00:16:53,920
and people say oh it could have come

448
00:16:57,509 --> 00:16:54,959
from

449
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:57,519
you know a cargo ship nearby or whatever

450
00:17:01,829 --> 00:16:59,680
but

451
00:17:05,029 --> 00:17:01,839
i again i just

452
00:17:06,710 --> 00:17:05,039
it just really bothers me that people

453
00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:06,720
think that we have no idea what's going

454
00:17:10,470 --> 00:17:08,400
on it makes it sound like we couldn't

455
00:17:11,429 --> 00:17:10,480
find our way out of a paper bag we can

456
00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:11,439
put a

457
00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:13,839
a missile on a pinpoint

458
00:17:18,309 --> 00:17:15,520
um out there

459
00:17:19,909 --> 00:17:18,319
somewhere on land but but if we had to

460
00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:19,919
find our way out of a paper bag we

461
00:17:25,270 --> 00:17:22,480
couldn't do it yeah you know it's just

462
00:17:27,429 --> 00:17:25,280
it's a ridiculous thought it really is

463
00:17:29,909 --> 00:17:27,439
and so if it of course we would have

464
00:17:32,150 --> 00:17:29,919
known what ships were around us we would

465
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:32,160
have had a very good situational

466
00:17:35,909 --> 00:17:34,400
awareness of what was going on

467
00:17:37,430 --> 00:17:35,919
so i there would have been no way that

468
00:17:40,710 --> 00:17:37,440
drones could

469
00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:40,720
uh somehow creep up on us like that it's

470
00:17:44,070 --> 00:17:42,559
just um

471
00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:44,080
it's it's not

472
00:17:48,310 --> 00:17:46,240
very believable

473
00:17:50,230 --> 00:17:48,320
absolutely i've got a question here from

474
00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:50,240
george he asks if did the pilot get a

475
00:17:54,470 --> 00:17:52,080
response from the uap

476
00:17:55,909 --> 00:17:54,480
um a friend or foe if so what was the

477
00:17:59,350 --> 00:17:55,919
response

478
00:18:03,110 --> 00:17:59,360
uh you know i i don't i don't know i

479
00:18:05,270 --> 00:18:03,120
mean i mean i i heard i had heard um

480
00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:05,280
recently this wasn't something i knew at

481
00:18:10,070 --> 00:18:07,760
the time but that uh something that i

482
00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:10,080
heard was that there were

483
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:12,400
that it was identified as friendly i

484
00:18:16,710 --> 00:18:14,720
don't know if that's true or not

485
00:18:18,549 --> 00:18:16,720
um

486
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:18,559
i don't know interesting definitely

487
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:19,919
interesting

488
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:21,200
so

489
00:18:24,310 --> 00:18:22,320
you mentioned that you were at the end

490
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:24,320
of the workup so i assumed like not long

491
00:18:29,350 --> 00:18:26,640
after this event happened that you then

492
00:18:31,350 --> 00:18:29,360
went on deployment if if i'm right so

493
00:18:33,029 --> 00:18:31,360
did the buzz continue once you kind of

494
00:18:34,390 --> 00:18:33,039
left the training areas and went

495
00:18:36,870 --> 00:18:34,400
overseas

496
00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:36,880
oh you know i it it really

497
00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:39,200
i i don't know so the the thing about it

498
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:41,200
too is that the ship was not a buzz with

499
00:18:46,230 --> 00:18:43,679
this right most people most people on

500
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:46,240
the ship had no idea what was happening

501
00:18:51,350 --> 00:18:47,200
um

502
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:51,360
this was limited to just people kind of

503
00:18:55,190 --> 00:18:53,280
in the know or

504
00:18:57,430 --> 00:18:55,200
within intelligence or that had

505
00:18:59,270 --> 00:18:57,440
clearances this wasn't

506
00:19:01,430 --> 00:18:59,280
uh the whole ship

507
00:19:03,510 --> 00:19:01,440
knowing about this but

508
00:19:05,830 --> 00:19:03,520
but i i you know i would say that for

509
00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:05,840
the most part uh the ship was kind of a

510
00:19:10,789 --> 00:19:08,240
buzz with it at the time in terms of the

511
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:10,799
people that i was coming in contact with

512
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:11,840
um

513
00:19:16,710 --> 00:19:14,320
you know i at one point i was going into

514
00:19:18,310 --> 00:19:16,720
a briefing and i heard a couple of the

515
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:18,320
pilots

516
00:19:22,789 --> 00:19:20,240
standing on a doorway to the room where

517
00:19:25,350 --> 00:19:22,799
this briefing was happening inside civic

518
00:19:26,789 --> 00:19:25,360
and i they were saying

519
00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:26,799
they were talking about it right they

520
00:19:31,110 --> 00:19:29,120
were like oh have you seen the ufos you

521
00:19:33,510 --> 00:19:31,120
know the the videos

522
00:19:36,130 --> 00:19:33,520
and so they were kind of discussing that

523
00:19:37,750 --> 00:19:36,140
so so people were talking about it um

524
00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:37,760
[Music]

525
00:19:42,870 --> 00:19:40,480
i kind of didn't really feel a need to

526
00:19:44,310 --> 00:19:42,880
talk about it um and and then it just

527
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:44,320
kind of went away when we went on

528
00:19:46,630 --> 00:19:45,840
deployment

529
00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:46,640
but

530
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:49,520
you know i that same buddy of mine

531
00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:52,720
um i was walking past him one day

532
00:19:58,310 --> 00:19:55,280
um actually headed to civic and he was

533
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:58,320
headed the opposite direction

534
00:20:02,710 --> 00:20:00,480
and uh

535
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:02,720
you know he

536
00:20:07,270 --> 00:20:04,720
i and i hate to say this but he did that

537
00:20:08,549 --> 00:20:07,280
you know creepy little girl voice from

538
00:20:11,350 --> 00:20:08,559
um

539
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:11,360
poltergeist he said they're back

540
00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:12,240
you know

541
00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:13,039
and

542
00:20:18,549 --> 00:20:16,240
hurry like i had

543
00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:18,559
a ton to do on deployment i didn't have

544
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:20,880
time to just even stop and think about

545
00:20:25,190 --> 00:20:22,480
this too much

546
00:20:28,149 --> 00:20:25,200
and as i'm passing him i'm kind of like

547
00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:28,159
what you know are you serious and he's

548
00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:29,919
like yeah

549
00:20:33,830 --> 00:20:31,840
and i was like no way and then i was

550
00:20:35,590 --> 00:20:33,840
just kind of on my way this is in

551
00:20:36,870 --> 00:20:35,600
passing

552
00:20:38,789 --> 00:20:36,880
um

553
00:20:40,789 --> 00:20:38,799
and so they did they came back when we

554
00:20:43,190 --> 00:20:40,799
were on station

555
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:43,200
wow so was that described as a similar

556
00:20:46,950 --> 00:20:45,360
object to the gimbal

557
00:20:50,149 --> 00:20:46,960
uh you know i never heard any

558
00:20:52,390 --> 00:20:50,159
description of it at that time um

559
00:20:53,669 --> 00:20:52,400
like i said i i was busy with my stuff i

560
00:20:57,830 --> 00:20:53,679
was working

561
00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:57,840
maybe 15 20 hours a day so uh yeah

562
00:21:02,630 --> 00:20:59,679
i i did we're in an active war zone i

563
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:02,640
suppose right yeah exactly i had other

564
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:04,080
things to do

565
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:05,520
um

566
00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:08,080
yeah that's understandable completely so

567
00:21:13,029 --> 00:21:10,320
let's fast forward a couple of years to

568
00:21:14,710 --> 00:21:13,039
you know the release of the videos from

569
00:21:17,029 --> 00:21:14,720
to the stars academy

570
00:21:19,190 --> 00:21:17,039
do you remember how where you were or

571
00:21:20,630 --> 00:21:19,200
when you first saw it on the tv or in

572
00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:20,640
the papers or anything and how it made

573
00:21:24,070 --> 00:21:21,760
you feel

574
00:21:25,909 --> 00:21:24,080
yeah i uh

575
00:21:28,149 --> 00:21:25,919
you know i was

576
00:21:30,230 --> 00:21:28,159
it was another kind of

577
00:21:33,669 --> 00:21:30,240
i feel like this the release of it to

578
00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:33,679
the new york times and seeing it

579
00:21:39,110 --> 00:21:36,000
kind of on my phone

580
00:21:40,230 --> 00:21:39,120
was a bigger shock to me than the event

581
00:21:42,630 --> 00:21:40,240
itself

582
00:21:45,029 --> 00:21:42,640
if that makes any sense because yeah

583
00:21:47,350 --> 00:21:45,039
because i wasn't busy at the time right

584
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:47,360
at the time i had transferred to

585
00:21:51,909 --> 00:21:49,200
washington dc i was working at the

586
00:21:53,909 --> 00:21:51,919
office of naval intelligence and

587
00:21:55,270 --> 00:21:53,919
you know my brother texts me one day and

588
00:21:57,909 --> 00:21:55,280
says hey there's

589
00:22:02,390 --> 00:21:57,919
this article in new york times about

590
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:02,400
ufos and the government's ufo program

591
00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:04,480
and he said there's footage

592
00:22:08,070 --> 00:22:06,640
and i said oh you know i'll check it out

593
00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:08,080
i really

594
00:22:12,710 --> 00:22:10,080
to me this was not a conversation i

595
00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:12,720
wanted to have with him because my job

596
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:15,200
was not something that i discussed at

597
00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:16,480
all

598
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:19,360
i wasn't at liberty to discuss it

599
00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:21,360
so i i couldn't really talk about things

600
00:22:27,350 --> 00:22:23,520
that i had seen

601
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:27,360
behind closed doors but so i watched the

602
00:22:34,789 --> 00:22:31,760
footage and i just kind of uh

603
00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:34,799
you know it was a big shock to see

604
00:22:39,029 --> 00:22:36,480
this footage that i first saw on this

605
00:22:40,390 --> 00:22:39,039
gif um now i'm watching it on my phone

606
00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:40,400
that was

607
00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:42,320
something that never

608
00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:43,600
happens

609
00:22:48,470 --> 00:22:46,240
i so i it was

610
00:22:51,909 --> 00:22:48,480
you know to see it it's like this is

611
00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:51,919
classified why is this out in the public

612
00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:54,320
you know and i was just very uneasy

613
00:22:58,149 --> 00:22:55,440
about that

614
00:23:00,310 --> 00:22:58,159
just kind of very immediately uneasy

615
00:23:02,149 --> 00:23:00,320
about that because you

616
00:23:04,310 --> 00:23:02,159
when you deal with classified material

617
00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:04,320
and classified information it's just

618
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:07,039
drilled into you that there's a place

619
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:08,400
and a time for that

620
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:10,799
and watching it on your cell phone is

621
00:23:13,029 --> 00:23:11,410
not

622
00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:13,039
[Laughter]

623
00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:14,640
is not something that should be

624
00:23:20,789 --> 00:23:17,600
happening right um

625
00:23:23,669 --> 00:23:20,799
so you know i was just very shocked

626
00:23:25,590 --> 00:23:23,679
um by all of that and then that that

627
00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:25,600
kind of made me want to dig into the

628
00:23:29,510 --> 00:23:27,120
topic

629
00:23:31,909 --> 00:23:29,520
a little bit more because it mentioned

630
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:31,919
specific people and organizations and i

631
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:34,000
and i knew being an intelligence analyst

632
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:36,720
i thought well i'm going to drill down

633
00:23:40,870 --> 00:23:39,520
on those sources and see what i can find

634
00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:40,880
for myself

635
00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:42,720
yeah

636
00:23:45,990 --> 00:23:44,400
so where did that lead you

637
00:23:50,950 --> 00:23:46,000
where did you start if you don't know me

638
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:50,960
asking yeah so i i i read some valet um

639
00:23:55,830 --> 00:23:54,320
and uh i read uh you know some of tom

640
00:23:58,710 --> 00:23:55,840
delong's books

641
00:24:00,630 --> 00:23:58,720
um because he was you know with ttsa and

642
00:24:02,710 --> 00:24:00,640
mentioned in the article

643
00:24:04,870 --> 00:24:02,720
yeah um

644
00:24:07,669 --> 00:24:04,880
and i couldn't you know

645
00:24:09,510 --> 00:24:07,679
i i of course i knew that these people

646
00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:09,520
were credible people

647
00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:12,000
um you know chris mellon assistant

648
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:13,919
secretary of defense for intelligence i

649
00:24:18,230 --> 00:24:15,840
mean these people aren't just

650
00:24:20,149 --> 00:24:18,240
just anybody coming out and saying this

651
00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:20,159
you know so i knew that there was some

652
00:24:24,870 --> 00:24:22,480
weight behind this

653
00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:24,880
uh so i just started reading books you

654
00:24:28,950 --> 00:24:26,240
know uh

655
00:24:30,789 --> 00:24:28,960
first tom de long stuff then tom delong

656
00:24:34,789 --> 00:24:30,799
had written the forward

657
00:24:37,190 --> 00:24:34,799
of tom delong's books so i

658
00:24:41,590 --> 00:24:37,200
that's what got me into valet

659
00:24:44,830 --> 00:24:41,600
one thing kind of led to another and um

660
00:24:46,710 --> 00:24:44,840
man it was a crazy ride

661
00:24:48,470 --> 00:24:46,720
absolutely and i suppose the one thing

662
00:24:50,789 --> 00:24:48,480
is as if all of what we've discussed so

663
00:24:52,390 --> 00:24:50,799
far wasn't you know

664
00:24:53,750 --> 00:24:52,400
exciting enough

665
00:24:55,269 --> 00:24:53,760
right

666
00:24:57,990 --> 00:24:55,279
let's move on to

667
00:25:01,269 --> 00:24:58,000
what happened to you after all that and

668
00:25:02,870 --> 00:25:01,279
and boy a lot happened so yeah i mean

669
00:25:04,310 --> 00:25:02,880
i'll leave it up to you where to start

670
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:04,320
but what

671
00:25:08,470 --> 00:25:06,720
what was the first thing afterwards or

672
00:25:11,269 --> 00:25:08,480
that came to light about

673
00:25:12,310 --> 00:25:11,279
you actually experiencing something for

674
00:25:14,950 --> 00:25:12,320
yourself

675
00:25:17,830 --> 00:25:14,960
um yeah so i

676
00:25:18,630 --> 00:25:17,840
you know i i became an experiencer after

677
00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:18,640
that

678
00:25:28,470 --> 00:25:25,840
uh and i you know i i went through this

679
00:25:31,350 --> 00:25:28,480
this experience where i

680
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:31,360
the first thing that happened um was you

681
00:25:36,070 --> 00:25:33,520
know when i started digging into this i

682
00:25:37,110 --> 00:25:36,080
started to feel very uneasy about things

683
00:25:38,070 --> 00:25:37,120
because

684
00:26:14,470 --> 00:25:38,080
i

685
00:26:16,149 --> 00:26:14,480
um

686
00:26:19,590 --> 00:26:16,159
which just

687
00:26:21,430 --> 00:26:19,600
uh was was also another life-altering

688
00:26:24,470 --> 00:26:21,440
experience was that

689
00:26:25,990 --> 00:26:24,480
i had this day of coincidences

690
00:26:29,110 --> 00:26:26,000
people sometimes call them

691
00:26:33,269 --> 00:26:29,120
synchronicities but they were

692
00:26:35,110 --> 00:26:33,279
they were coincidences that were so

693
00:26:36,950 --> 00:26:35,120
um

694
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:36,960
so far out there

695
00:26:40,630 --> 00:26:38,400
that

696
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:40,640
they were terrifying when you put them

697
00:26:45,110 --> 00:26:43,679
all together um

698
00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:45,120
and uh

699
00:26:51,830 --> 00:26:47,520
it led me to reading this book

700
00:26:52,710 --> 00:26:51,840
um called the cavalien by the three

701
00:26:54,710 --> 00:26:52,720
um

702
00:26:56,789 --> 00:26:54,720
and that was that was the first book i

703
00:26:58,630 --> 00:26:56,799
read because i knew that that had

704
00:27:01,190 --> 00:26:58,640
something to do with this

705
00:27:03,669 --> 00:27:01,200
after after this day of impossible

706
00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:03,679
coincidences that just

707
00:27:08,710 --> 00:27:06,000
scared the bejesus out of me right

708
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:08,720
because it was so purposeful too it was

709
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:12,240
it was coincidences in such a way that

710
00:27:17,669 --> 00:27:14,240
something wanted me to know that these

711
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:17,679
coincidences were constructed this way

712
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:21,120
right and that is terrifying um to think

713
00:27:24,149 --> 00:27:22,320
of

714
00:27:26,549 --> 00:27:24,159
um

715
00:27:28,870 --> 00:27:26,559
and so uh you know i read this book the

716
00:27:32,190 --> 00:27:28,880
caballian by the three initiates and it

717
00:27:35,110 --> 00:27:32,200
was written in i think

718
00:27:37,190 --> 00:27:35,120
1909 or eight or something by a guy

719
00:27:39,510 --> 00:27:37,200
named william walker atkinson and it

720
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:39,520
just describes these seven seven

721
00:27:43,590 --> 00:27:41,840
universal principles that govern the

722
00:27:45,669 --> 00:27:43,600
universe

723
00:27:47,029 --> 00:27:45,679
and then of course uh everything that

724
00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:47,039
followed that

725
00:27:51,590 --> 00:27:49,840
um you know beings in my room at night

726
00:27:54,549 --> 00:27:51,600
whatever

727
00:27:56,149 --> 00:27:54,559
other experiences i had they all kind of

728
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:56,159
fit in

729
00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:57,760
with that book

730
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:01,990
and and that book is certainly not

731
00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:04,799
something i would have read otherwise uh

732
00:28:08,549 --> 00:28:06,640
you know he was he was a

733
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:08,559
rather famous occult

734
00:28:11,510 --> 00:28:09,679
writer

735
00:28:13,510 --> 00:28:11,520
um

736
00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:13,520
wow i mean you mentioned that beings in

737
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:14,960
your room can you are you able to kind

738
00:28:18,149 --> 00:28:16,480
of expand on that a bit and describe

739
00:28:20,149 --> 00:28:18,159
kind of what happened and you know what

740
00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:20,159
they looked like and whether any kind of

741
00:28:23,750 --> 00:28:22,320
messages were relayed or things like

742
00:28:25,990 --> 00:28:23,760
that

743
00:28:27,590 --> 00:28:26,000
uh yeah so i mean i saw several

744
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:27,600
different types

745
00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:29,200
um throughout

746
00:28:34,389 --> 00:28:32,080
these experiences the the first one

747
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:34,399
was um

748
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:36,960
and i i was not a religious person at

749
00:28:40,950 --> 00:28:39,200
the time i i never

750
00:28:42,389 --> 00:28:40,960
have believed in that i've never been a

751
00:28:44,950 --> 00:28:42,399
church goer i wasn't raised in a

752
00:28:47,669 --> 00:28:44,960
household where anybody believed any of

753
00:28:50,389 --> 00:28:47,679
that so i was

754
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:50,399
i was very much science

755
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:52,720
based and grounded my parents were both

756
00:28:58,870 --> 00:28:56,320
college graduates uh with with stem

757
00:29:00,149 --> 00:28:58,880
backgrounds so

758
00:29:01,330 --> 00:29:00,159
uh

759
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:01,340
to think of some

760
00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:02,480
[Music]

761
00:29:09,909 --> 00:29:05,440
white bearded man in the sky was just

762
00:29:11,750 --> 00:29:09,919
total fantasy to me and uh and not even

763
00:29:13,430 --> 00:29:11,760
in the realm of anything that i believed

764
00:29:17,190 --> 00:29:13,440
but

765
00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:17,200
so uh the first experience i had was i

766
00:29:22,070 --> 00:29:18,880
was in my room

767
00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:22,080
after having read the caballon i was

768
00:29:25,990 --> 00:29:24,080
asleep one night and i felt something

769
00:29:27,510 --> 00:29:26,000
grab my arm

770
00:29:28,950 --> 00:29:27,520
and wake me up

771
00:29:31,669 --> 00:29:28,960
uh

772
00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:31,679
so i i open my eyes and

773
00:29:36,470 --> 00:29:33,840
i'm in my room and i'm laying on my back

774
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:36,480
i don't i don't ever lay on my back

775
00:29:41,830 --> 00:29:38,640
uh when i sleep because i eventually

776
00:29:43,669 --> 00:29:41,840
will just snore myself awake uh

777
00:29:44,630 --> 00:29:43,679
if i do that

778
00:29:47,269 --> 00:29:44,640
um

779
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:47,279
so i i wake up on my back and i'm

780
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:50,399
looking at my window and i thought

781
00:29:55,750 --> 00:29:53,039
the window's going blurry you know like

782
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:55,760
my vision was clear and then it starts

783
00:29:59,590 --> 00:29:57,520
going blurry so i went to go raise my

784
00:30:03,430 --> 00:29:59,600
hand to my face to wipe the sleep out of

785
00:30:06,070 --> 00:30:03,440
my eyes and i couldn't move um wow

786
00:30:08,549 --> 00:30:06,080
so i thought wait a minute i woke up did

787
00:30:10,389 --> 00:30:08,559
something grab my arm

788
00:30:12,870 --> 00:30:10,399
and so i kind of fight to turn my head

789
00:30:13,669 --> 00:30:12,880
to the right and i see this

790
00:30:16,630 --> 00:30:13,679
uh

791
00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:16,640
shadowy figure standing over me

792
00:30:21,669 --> 00:30:18,240
um

793
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:21,679
just like a torso two arms and a head

794
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:23,760
like bent over

795
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:26,399
looking at me and i

796
00:30:30,870 --> 00:30:28,080
and as i'm looking at this all of a

797
00:30:33,269 --> 00:30:30,880
sudden my room starts to light up

798
00:30:34,789 --> 00:30:33,279
from behind this entity and like this

799
00:30:36,389 --> 00:30:34,799
golden light

800
00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:36,399
and then the light

801
00:30:40,710 --> 00:30:39,200
becomes blinding it's so bright and then

802
00:30:42,950 --> 00:30:40,720
uh

803
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:42,960
the light concentrates into these rays

804
00:30:46,789 --> 00:30:45,840
of golden light coming out of her head

805
00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:46,799
uh

806
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:48,640
and

807
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:51,600
i thought to myself what is going on you

808
00:30:55,669 --> 00:30:53,600
know this is bizarre

809
00:30:58,549 --> 00:30:55,679
um

810
00:30:59,590 --> 00:30:58,559
so i i fell back asleep

811
00:31:01,509 --> 00:30:59,600
um

812
00:31:02,789 --> 00:31:01,519
and then i started having this sexual

813
00:31:08,389 --> 00:31:02,799
dream

814
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:08,399
it was it was just an ex of mine from 20

815
00:31:13,509 --> 00:31:10,880
years ago and myself

816
00:31:16,950 --> 00:31:13,519
and there was nothing else around um it

817
00:31:18,870 --> 00:31:16,960
was just total pitch black darkness

818
00:31:21,029 --> 00:31:18,880
right and um

819
00:31:22,389 --> 00:31:21,039
so then i wake up again i'm back in my

820
00:31:24,870 --> 00:31:22,399
room

821
00:31:28,470 --> 00:31:24,880
and i can see that there's this woman on

822
00:31:30,470 --> 00:31:28,480
top of me who has blue skin

823
00:31:32,789 --> 00:31:30,480
um and my hands are on her thighs and i

824
00:31:36,310 --> 00:31:32,799
can feel her skin is not

825
00:31:37,110 --> 00:31:36,320
like normal human skin it's it's thicker

826
00:31:46,230 --> 00:31:37,120
and

827
00:31:49,350 --> 00:31:46,240
talking about this people are like wow

828
00:31:51,430 --> 00:31:49,360
this guy has lost

829
00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:51,440
his mind right

830
00:31:59,669 --> 00:31:52,480
this is

831
00:32:01,509 --> 00:31:59,679
i'm working at the office of naval

832
00:32:02,950 --> 00:32:01,519
intelligence right

833
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:02,960
um

834
00:32:05,110 --> 00:32:03,840
so

835
00:32:09,909 --> 00:32:05,120
i

836
00:32:12,830 --> 00:32:09,919
you know

837
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:12,840
deluding myself this is happening

838
00:32:18,230 --> 00:32:16,080
right and um

839
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:18,240
you know i i started to pick apart that

840
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:21,600
experience uh in terms of uh the book

841
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:26,640
the cavalien that i read about and um

842
00:32:30,549 --> 00:32:28,080
you know one of the principles is that

843
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:30,559
the universe is mental

844
00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:32,559
um that you can think of the universe as

845
00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:35,279
a mental creation of a singular

846
00:32:39,590 --> 00:32:37,919
consciousness of which we are all a part

847
00:32:43,269 --> 00:32:39,600
right

848
00:32:46,789 --> 00:32:43,279
and um i i kind of i feel like

849
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:46,799
that whole experience was just like uh

850
00:32:52,470 --> 00:32:49,760
a pre prelude of things to come

851
00:32:54,950 --> 00:32:52,480
right it was the the light rays of light

852
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:54,960
coming from the head kind of

853
00:33:03,909 --> 00:33:01,590
as an allegory for the mental universe

854
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:03,919
to think of this as a mental

855
00:33:07,990 --> 00:33:06,720
thing rather than

856
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:08,000
uh

857
00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:10,480
anything else right these these

858
00:33:13,509 --> 00:33:12,559
experiences that follow they're all

859
00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:13,519
mental

860
00:33:18,549 --> 00:33:16,480
and you need to think of them and

861
00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:18,559
and kind of conceptualize them in that

862
00:33:22,950 --> 00:33:20,080
way

863
00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:22,960
uh as as allegory for the mental

864
00:33:27,269 --> 00:33:24,480
universe and i

865
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:27,279
that that's kind of the the

866
00:33:33,190 --> 00:33:28,399
the

867
00:33:34,630 --> 00:33:33,200
this now um

868
00:33:37,430 --> 00:33:34,640
uh so

869
00:33:40,070 --> 00:33:37,440
yeah i i am not your typical

870
00:33:42,470 --> 00:33:40,080
experiencer i i don't

871
00:33:46,149 --> 00:33:42,480
have the typical views of this that

872
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:46,159
people normally do i i tend to look at

873
00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:48,080
if i'm looking for sources for all of

874
00:33:51,110 --> 00:33:49,519
this i tend to look at things that have

875
00:33:52,389 --> 00:33:51,120
come down

876
00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:52,399
through

877
00:33:57,750 --> 00:33:55,360
centuries right that are time tested i i

878
00:34:00,549 --> 00:33:57,760
love the works of plato i love the works

879
00:34:03,190 --> 00:34:00,559
of other philosophers that

880
00:34:05,029 --> 00:34:03,200
that spoke on these topics um and the

881
00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:05,039
nature of reality

882
00:34:07,909 --> 00:34:06,480
um because they knew what they were

883
00:34:09,829 --> 00:34:07,919
talking about there's a reason their

884
00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:09,839
their works have survived for thousands

885
00:34:16,629 --> 00:34:14,470
no i appreciate you you're going into

886
00:34:18,470 --> 00:34:16,639
detail there so would you say from these

887
00:34:21,190 --> 00:34:18,480
experiences there was an overall message

888
00:34:22,950 --> 00:34:21,200
of positivity or would it lean more

889
00:34:25,589 --> 00:34:22,960
towards negativity i mean what was the

890
00:34:27,990 --> 00:34:25,599
overall kind of feeling you got

891
00:34:29,589 --> 00:34:28,000
um i'm i'm glad the whole thing happened

892
00:34:30,629 --> 00:34:29,599
to me for sure

893
00:34:32,389 --> 00:34:30,639
um

894
00:34:34,230 --> 00:34:32,399
you know believe it or not

895
00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:34,240
i so i wrote a book about all this it's

896
00:34:38,069 --> 00:34:36,720
called initiated because i realized at

897
00:34:40,069 --> 00:34:38,079
the end of this that this was an

898
00:34:41,669 --> 00:34:40,079
initiatory process

899
00:34:44,710 --> 00:34:41,679
right that

900
00:34:46,950 --> 00:34:44,720
conditions one's mind to start thinking

901
00:34:48,950 --> 00:34:46,960
of the universe in a certain way so that

902
00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:48,960
at the end of

903
00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:50,639
the experiences hopefully if you've

904
00:34:54,069 --> 00:34:52,800
played your cards right

905
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:54,079
you

906
00:34:58,790 --> 00:34:56,159
come into this

907
00:35:01,910 --> 00:34:58,800
uh thing that has been described as like

908
00:35:05,349 --> 00:35:01,920
nirvana or enlightenment at the end

909
00:35:08,470 --> 00:35:05,359
which i certainly did and

910
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:08,480
and in thinking about it allegorically

911
00:35:31,910 --> 00:35:09,359
i

912
00:35:34,230 --> 00:35:31,920
allegory um

913
00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:34,240
and that that's what reality is it's

914
00:35:39,270 --> 00:35:36,960
it's an allegory for a

915
00:35:41,589 --> 00:35:39,280
reality that underlies it

916
00:35:44,230 --> 00:35:41,599
and that's what our physical reality is

917
00:35:46,069 --> 00:35:44,240
and and it just it blows my mind still

918
00:35:48,390 --> 00:35:46,079
to this day

919
00:35:51,190 --> 00:35:48,400
uh when i think about it and kind of

920
00:35:53,910 --> 00:35:51,200
perceive it out there

921
00:35:57,109 --> 00:35:53,920
um i'm not sure if that

922
00:35:58,630 --> 00:35:57,119
goes above people's heads but

923
00:36:01,510 --> 00:35:58,640
i mean it doesn't necessarily go above

924
00:36:03,589 --> 00:36:01,520
my head it's like you said you know

925
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:03,599
you're not the stereotypical experiencer

926
00:36:05,750 --> 00:36:04,880
but then i was thinking straight away

927
00:36:07,829 --> 00:36:05,760
well

928
00:36:09,990 --> 00:36:07,839
is there a stereotypical experience sir

929
00:36:11,589 --> 00:36:10,000
i mean i've spoken to a few and then my

930
00:36:13,750 --> 00:36:11,599
good friend jay christopher king runs

931
00:36:15,589 --> 00:36:13,760
the experiencer group and you know the

932
00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:15,599
amount of differences between a lot of

933
00:36:20,310 --> 00:36:18,720
what he's come across i'm sure are just

934
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:20,320
vast so

935
00:36:23,349 --> 00:36:21,680
you know

936
00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:23,359
i'm sure there's all sorts happening out

937
00:36:27,430 --> 00:36:25,359
there um but was this something that

938
00:36:28,710 --> 00:36:27,440
still continues to this day

939
00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:28,720
for you

940
00:36:33,349 --> 00:36:31,119
yeah it does um

941
00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:33,359
you know there was uh

942
00:36:37,270 --> 00:36:35,280
the author of the caballon was good

943
00:36:39,750 --> 00:36:37,280
friends with this

944
00:36:42,230 --> 00:36:39,760
woman of the time

945
00:36:44,630 --> 00:36:42,240
back in the early 1900s who was named

946
00:36:46,150 --> 00:36:44,640
mabel collins who wrote

947
00:36:47,910 --> 00:36:46,160
several books

948
00:36:48,710 --> 00:36:47,920
about this

949
00:36:52,630 --> 00:36:48,720
and

950
00:36:57,510 --> 00:36:54,630
when the sun moves northward the way of

951
00:36:59,190 --> 00:36:57,520
initiation right and

952
00:37:01,030 --> 00:36:59,200
and i read several books about

953
00:37:03,829 --> 00:37:01,040
initiation and one of the things she

954
00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:03,839
describes is that there is this thing

955
00:37:08,950 --> 00:37:07,680
called waking clairvoyance right and

956
00:37:11,109 --> 00:37:08,960
and i

957
00:37:13,030 --> 00:37:11,119
experi i started to experience this

958
00:37:16,230 --> 00:37:13,040
voice that i would hear

959
00:37:18,069 --> 00:37:16,240
when i was in the the state between

960
00:37:20,710 --> 00:37:18,079
awake and asleep

961
00:37:22,630 --> 00:37:20,720
and i still to this day hear it um and

962
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:22,640
it will give me

963
00:37:29,349 --> 00:37:26,880
the name of an author to read maybe or

964
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:29,359
uh an artist to look at

965
00:37:32,310 --> 00:37:30,240
or

966
00:37:35,510 --> 00:37:32,320
uh something else and then i'll see how

967
00:37:37,430 --> 00:37:35,520
it's connected to all of this right and

968
00:37:40,710 --> 00:37:37,440
and and i'll write about it i'm actually

969
00:37:43,510 --> 00:37:40,720
working on another book called um

970
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:43,520
master of animals is the working title

971
00:37:48,150 --> 00:37:45,359
and and i'm i named it after this

972
00:37:50,790 --> 00:37:48,160
ancient motif right of

973
00:37:55,109 --> 00:37:50,800
and it's just a motif from all over the

974
00:37:57,510 --> 00:37:55,119
world it was everywhere that depicts um

975
00:38:01,109 --> 00:37:57,520
a person standing between

976
00:38:03,430 --> 00:38:01,119
two animals kind of holding them at bay

977
00:38:06,550 --> 00:38:03,440
and and it represents kind of this idea

978
00:38:08,470 --> 00:38:06,560
of taking the buddhist middle road right

979
00:38:11,109 --> 00:38:08,480
where you're keeping keeping these

980
00:38:12,550 --> 00:38:11,119
beasts at bay and the mind on either

981
00:38:15,030 --> 00:38:12,560
side of you

982
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:15,040
to walk that middle road that

983
00:38:22,150 --> 00:38:18,400
that fine line where you are none of

984
00:38:24,069 --> 00:38:22,160
those beasts right and um

985
00:38:25,910 --> 00:38:24,079
and so that's what i'm what i'm calling

986
00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:25,920
this new book

987
00:38:29,190 --> 00:38:27,520
i like it i like the idea of it i mean

988
00:38:30,870 --> 00:38:29,200
one thing that comes across to me is

989
00:38:32,630 --> 00:38:30,880
that throughout all of this

990
00:38:34,150 --> 00:38:32,640
you know as i'm sure it was terrifying

991
00:38:35,910 --> 00:38:34,160
but you seem quite grounded so it's

992
00:38:37,750 --> 00:38:35,920
almost like you've found a way to deal

993
00:38:39,829 --> 00:38:37,760
with it or figure it out

994
00:38:42,150 --> 00:38:39,839
but i mean during these times did you

995
00:38:43,270 --> 00:38:42,160
have anyone to talk to about it or was

996
00:38:44,230 --> 00:38:43,280
it kind of something you kept to

997
00:38:48,069 --> 00:38:44,240
yourself

998
00:38:50,069 --> 00:38:48,079
ah i didn't i i kept it to myself uh i i

999
00:38:53,270 --> 00:38:50,079
talked to my brother about it a little

1000
00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:53,280
bit and i i was lucky enough that he

1001
00:38:56,550 --> 00:38:54,720
believed me

1002
00:38:58,829 --> 00:38:56,560
you know what i mean like he because he

1003
00:39:02,390 --> 00:38:58,839
he knows me right so he knows that i'm a

1004
00:39:04,630 --> 00:39:02,400
very grounded and serious person and i

1005
00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:04,640
had a very serious job

1006
00:39:11,109 --> 00:39:09,440
um which i also took very seriously uh

1007
00:39:12,950 --> 00:39:11,119
but

1008
00:39:14,870 --> 00:39:12,960
you know so he knew that if i was saying

1009
00:39:18,470 --> 00:39:14,880
this there's something

1010
00:39:20,790 --> 00:39:18,480
something is happening here you know um

1011
00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:20,800
so he he didn't disbelieve anything that

1012
00:39:25,030 --> 00:39:22,800
i was telling him and in fact

1013
00:39:27,109 --> 00:39:25,040
you know to this day i i talk to him

1014
00:39:28,710 --> 00:39:27,119
about it all the time

1015
00:39:31,990 --> 00:39:28,720
and then um

1016
00:39:34,069 --> 00:39:32,000
you know post my experiences and and me

1017
00:39:36,310 --> 00:39:34,079
figuring it out i

1018
00:39:39,510 --> 00:39:36,320
i would kind of

1019
00:39:41,990 --> 00:39:39,520
i i became like a philosopher you know

1020
00:39:44,310 --> 00:39:42,000
in a sense like at work we would we

1021
00:39:46,390 --> 00:39:44,320
would go like the people i work with in

1022
00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:46,400
my immediate sphere at work we would go

1023
00:39:51,589 --> 00:39:48,400
down and eat lunch together and we would

1024
00:39:52,630 --> 00:39:51,599
have um woke wednesdays they called it

1025
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:52,640
where

1026
00:39:57,670 --> 00:39:54,480
people would ask me about life and i

1027
00:40:00,230 --> 00:39:57,680
would kind of answer their questions and

1028
00:40:02,790 --> 00:40:00,240
and guide them

1029
00:40:03,990 --> 00:40:02,800
wow that sounds cool yeah yeah

1030
00:40:05,109 --> 00:40:04,000
so do you

1031
00:40:07,030 --> 00:40:05,119
you know you mention all this sort of

1032
00:40:09,109 --> 00:40:07,040
philip philosophical side of things do

1033
00:40:10,630 --> 00:40:09,119
you do you link now like

1034
00:40:12,390 --> 00:40:10,640
all different aspects of say the

1035
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:12,400
phenomena whether it be the occult

1036
00:40:16,870 --> 00:40:14,880
aspect the paranormal you know the

1037
00:40:18,790 --> 00:40:16,880
extraterrestrial do you think it's all

1038
00:40:20,790 --> 00:40:18,800
linked in some way

1039
00:40:23,829 --> 00:40:20,800
oh yeah absolutely i think that all the

1040
00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:23,839
world's religions relate to this um in

1041
00:40:29,109 --> 00:40:26,880
terms of the philosophy of it when

1042
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:29,119
that that to me at this point is just

1043
00:40:31,510 --> 00:40:30,720
fairly obvious and if you know what

1044
00:40:34,950 --> 00:40:31,520
you're

1045
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:34,960
then

1046
00:40:42,790 --> 00:40:39,599
religions in fact are the same they're

1047
00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:42,800
all describing the same thing um

1048
00:40:46,150 --> 00:40:44,720
but but a lot of people don't do that

1049
00:40:47,670 --> 00:40:46,160
because they they like to look at these

1050
00:40:51,030 --> 00:40:47,680
stories and then

1051
00:40:53,910 --> 00:40:51,040
they interpret them in their own way

1052
00:40:56,710 --> 00:40:53,920
but but once you've seen what i've seen

1053
00:40:59,510 --> 00:40:56,720
it becomes clear it's like oh that's

1054
00:41:02,550 --> 00:40:59,520
what all this is you know and i had i

1055
00:41:03,589 --> 00:41:02,560
had no idea before

1056
00:41:05,430 --> 00:41:03,599
um

1057
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:05,440
and i you know

1058
00:41:12,069 --> 00:41:08,319
in terms of like the universe being

1059
00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:12,079
allegory um your your last guest diana

1060
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:14,800
pasalka was on

1061
00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:16,160
and um

1062
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:17,680
one of the things that i like to talk

1063
00:41:20,470 --> 00:41:19,040
about is

1064
00:41:22,230 --> 00:41:20,480
is

1065
00:41:25,030 --> 00:41:22,240
that whether or not you're an introvert

1066
00:41:27,990 --> 00:41:25,040
or an extrovert will depend on how you

1067
00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:28,000
relate to this allegory right right that

1068
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:30,480
is your relationship to the allegory a

1069
00:41:34,710 --> 00:41:32,000
lot of people think introversion and

1070
00:41:36,710 --> 00:41:34,720
extroversion are just these

1071
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:36,720
these um

1072
00:41:40,470 --> 00:41:38,880
qualities that you can possess but

1073
00:41:43,190 --> 00:41:40,480
they're much more than that these are

1074
00:41:44,870 --> 00:41:43,200
two different planes of mental existence

1075
00:41:46,150 --> 00:41:44,880
that don't see each other at all and

1076
00:41:49,349 --> 00:41:46,160
that's kind of the reason for a lot of

1077
00:41:51,670 --> 00:41:49,359
the strife that we see in politics today

1078
00:41:54,069 --> 00:41:51,680
but uh

1079
00:41:56,150 --> 00:41:54,079
so diana pasalka described something

1080
00:42:00,390 --> 00:41:56,160
that i thought was very interesting

1081
00:42:01,750 --> 00:42:00,400
about ryan bledsoe and his family

1082
00:42:04,069 --> 00:42:01,760
and

1083
00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:04,079
how he was kind of at the end of his

1084
00:42:08,630 --> 00:42:06,640
experiences he had built this garden

1085
00:42:10,790 --> 00:42:08,640
right to feed

1086
00:42:12,470 --> 00:42:10,800
to feed the world he said

1087
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:12,480
right and that was something that he

1088
00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:14,400
wanted to do

1089
00:42:22,309 --> 00:42:19,040
and so you know when you think about

1090
00:42:26,390 --> 00:42:22,319
eating and and drinking you're consuming

1091
00:42:29,030 --> 00:42:26,400
right you're consuming information even

1092
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:29,040
um and so that too becomes something

1093
00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:30,400
allegorical

1094
00:42:34,710 --> 00:42:32,079
right and that's what

1095
00:42:36,470 --> 00:42:34,720
you know drinking the the

1096
00:42:39,190 --> 00:42:36,480
body and the blood of christ is all

1097
00:42:41,109 --> 00:42:39,200
about it's an allegory for the knowledge

1098
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:41,119
of christ right

1099
00:42:46,309 --> 00:42:44,400
and so you you have this guy who's

1100
00:42:48,710 --> 00:42:46,319
decided he's going to build this garden

1101
00:42:51,349 --> 00:42:48,720
to feed the world but

1102
00:42:52,790 --> 00:42:51,359
he's he's acting on this in an

1103
00:42:53,670 --> 00:42:52,800
extroverted

1104
00:42:56,550 --> 00:42:53,680
way

1105
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:56,560
right he's he's he's making this garden

1106
00:43:01,750 --> 00:42:59,760
rather than um feeding the world with

1107
00:43:03,670 --> 00:43:01,760
knowledge right so

1108
00:43:05,430 --> 00:43:03,680
so that's like that those are like the

1109
00:43:08,470 --> 00:43:05,440
two different levels introvert and

1110
00:43:10,390 --> 00:43:08,480
extrovert and and when you see this in

1111
00:43:12,470 --> 00:43:10,400
the world it starts to become fairly

1112
00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:12,480
obvious

1113
00:43:17,109 --> 00:43:14,960
that that that's the way things are and

1114
00:43:19,910 --> 00:43:17,119
that's what reality is

1115
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,990
it's very scary actually

1116
00:43:29,910 --> 00:43:26,550
because you can see people relating to

1117
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:29,920
one another in an extroverted way and

1118
00:43:33,430 --> 00:43:31,680
you can see

1119
00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:33,440
countries relating to each other in an

1120
00:43:38,790 --> 00:43:36,160
extroverted way and and it's it just

1121
00:43:41,190 --> 00:43:38,800
becomes very very scary because you you

1122
00:43:42,390 --> 00:43:41,200
know where that can end up right and

1123
00:43:44,069 --> 00:43:42,400
yeah

1124
00:43:46,630 --> 00:43:44,079
and and a lot of experiences they're

1125
00:43:50,309 --> 00:43:46,640
shown like these apocalyptic scenes

1126
00:43:52,470 --> 00:43:50,319
right of destruction and death um and

1127
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:52,480
things like that but that

1128
00:43:57,589 --> 00:43:55,280
that's an allegory for this experience

1129
00:44:00,790 --> 00:43:57,599
right you are

1130
00:44:02,470 --> 00:44:00,800
your inner life is in turmoil at this

1131
00:44:04,870 --> 00:44:02,480
point right because you're going through

1132
00:44:07,190 --> 00:44:04,880
this initiation and you

1133
00:44:10,230 --> 00:44:07,200
your your whole life has been up ended

1134
00:44:12,069 --> 00:44:10,240
and it's catastrophic and you're very

1135
00:44:13,829 --> 00:44:12,079
emotional you're very

1136
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:13,839
depressed

1137
00:44:17,670 --> 00:44:15,200
um

1138
00:44:20,550 --> 00:44:17,680
and and so that's that's kind of they're

1139
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:20,560
showing you the extroverted allegory of

1140
00:44:26,069 --> 00:44:23,520
that to represent what's happening to

1141
00:44:27,510 --> 00:44:26,079
you inside right

1142
00:44:29,349 --> 00:44:27,520
and and that

1143
00:44:31,829 --> 00:44:29,359
and people don't always get the

1144
00:44:35,430 --> 00:44:31,839
symbolism that jim semivan talks about

1145
00:44:37,750 --> 00:44:35,440
how this is they speak to us in symbols

1146
00:44:40,630 --> 00:44:37,760
right and so you have to interpret those

1147
00:44:42,069 --> 00:44:40,640
symbols and interpret the experiences as

1148
00:44:44,470 --> 00:44:42,079
allegory

1149
00:44:46,150 --> 00:44:44,480
to kind of unwrap what's happening to

1150
00:44:50,150 --> 00:44:46,160
you

1151
00:44:52,950 --> 00:44:50,160
i never really stopped to think about it

1152
00:44:55,910 --> 00:44:52,960
that much but it does you know

1153
00:44:58,550 --> 00:44:55,920
does make sense that it's

1154
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:58,560
doesn't necessarily depict what it means

1155
00:45:01,829 --> 00:45:00,160
it you know you have to

1156
00:45:03,750 --> 00:45:01,839
translate it to

1157
00:45:05,109 --> 00:45:03,760
yeah that yeah i appreciate that and

1158
00:45:08,309 --> 00:45:05,119
it's giving me

1159
00:45:09,750 --> 00:45:08,319
food for thought let's say so yeah and

1160
00:45:11,589 --> 00:45:09,760
and that's why people talk about high

1161
00:45:13,270 --> 00:45:11,599
strangeness because they don't realize

1162
00:45:15,910 --> 00:45:13,280
this about the phenomenon so they want

1163
00:45:18,309 --> 00:45:15,920
to take these experiences at face value

1164
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:18,319
and when you do that it's nonsense you

1165
00:45:21,349 --> 00:45:19,599
know um

1166
00:45:23,190 --> 00:45:21,359
and and that's why you call it high

1167
00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:23,200
strangeness because it doesn't make any

1168
00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:24,960
sense any other way

1169
00:45:27,910 --> 00:45:25,839
yeah

1170
00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:27,920
valid point absolutely

1171
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:30,720
um i just got a question here from uh

1172
00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:32,880
jay allen could you ask if we can

1173
00:45:36,870 --> 00:45:34,960
parallel this with hitchhiker reported

1174
00:45:38,790 --> 00:45:36,880
by the dia folks

1175
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:38,800
if so do you have any theories regarding

1176
00:45:43,589 --> 00:45:41,040
the purpose or intent

1177
00:45:45,829 --> 00:45:43,599
maybe comment on the contagion theory

1178
00:45:48,950 --> 00:45:45,839
yeah i mean absolutely i think i think

1179
00:45:51,270 --> 00:45:48,960
it is contagious because

1180
00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:51,280
you know as someone like me right i i

1181
00:45:54,630 --> 00:45:52,800
start to experience things and the

1182
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:54,640
people around me knew that i was

1183
00:46:00,309 --> 00:45:57,440
incredibly level-headed right and very

1184
00:46:02,230 --> 00:46:00,319
just grounded um i've been told by many

1185
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:02,240
people in the past that hey you're

1186
00:46:05,750 --> 00:46:04,560
you're the most level-headed person i

1187
00:46:08,069 --> 00:46:05,760
know

1188
00:46:09,030 --> 00:46:08,079
uh because there's very little that

1189
00:46:11,190 --> 00:46:09,040
would ever

1190
00:46:13,750 --> 00:46:11,200
make me upset i was just very always

1191
00:46:15,510 --> 00:46:13,760
calm cool collected

1192
00:46:16,710 --> 00:46:15,520
and yet here i am talking about this

1193
00:46:19,030 --> 00:46:16,720
stuff that's

1194
00:46:21,990 --> 00:46:19,040
uh in the realm of tim foil hats so

1195
00:46:24,309 --> 00:46:22,000
there must be something to it you know

1196
00:46:26,790 --> 00:46:24,319
um and so then you know it gets other

1197
00:46:30,309 --> 00:46:26,800
people thinking well okay

1198
00:46:32,390 --> 00:46:30,319
this is real you know and so

1199
00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:32,400
the phenomenon will recognize hey that

1200
00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:33,599
person

1201
00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:35,680
we can maybe get them

1202
00:46:41,109 --> 00:46:37,680
to realize this as well

1203
00:46:43,910 --> 00:46:41,119
let's let's try to initiate them too

1204
00:46:45,589 --> 00:46:43,920
you know and so that's how this kind of

1205
00:46:47,349 --> 00:46:45,599
spreads it

1206
00:46:49,190 --> 00:46:47,359
once you once

1207
00:46:51,510 --> 00:46:49,200
i forgot who said it it was a quote i

1208
00:46:53,670 --> 00:46:51,520
read recently that once you become aware

1209
00:46:56,230 --> 00:46:53,680
of the phenomenon it becomes aware of

1210
00:46:58,870 --> 00:46:56,240
you and that's kind of that's kind of

1211
00:47:00,309 --> 00:46:58,880
how this hitchhiker effect happens you

1212
00:47:01,829 --> 00:47:00,319
know because if you

1213
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:01,839
if you're working on this behind closed

1214
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:04,560
doors obviously you know it's real

1215
00:47:10,550 --> 00:47:07,200
right and then you're going to see

1216
00:47:13,589 --> 00:47:10,560
extra types of footage uh

1217
00:47:17,190 --> 00:47:13,599
photographs um whatever and it'll be

1218
00:47:19,349 --> 00:47:17,200
crystal clear um i've seen some of that

1219
00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:19,359
um and i don't know why they don't come

1220
00:47:23,030 --> 00:47:21,520
out with it uh

1221
00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:23,040
but you know

1222
00:47:27,270 --> 00:47:24,559
so

1223
00:47:29,109 --> 00:47:27,280
that too will get you thinking

1224
00:47:31,589 --> 00:47:29,119
you know and then the phenomenon

1225
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:31,599
suddenly has an inroad with you you know

1226
00:47:35,190 --> 00:47:33,760
because you now understand that this is

1227
00:47:36,549 --> 00:47:35,200
real this isn't

1228
00:47:38,950 --> 00:47:36,559
you're not waking up in the middle of

1229
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:38,960
the night and this is just a bad dream

1230
00:47:43,190 --> 00:47:41,280
you know uh some people can't tell the

1231
00:47:44,710 --> 00:47:43,200
difference i can

1232
00:47:46,230 --> 00:47:44,720
um

1233
00:47:48,230 --> 00:47:46,240
but uh

1234
00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:48,240
yeah so that that's kind of what the hit

1235
00:47:52,470 --> 00:47:49,680
that's how i would describe the

1236
00:47:55,109 --> 00:47:52,480
hitchhiker effect anyway it's just that

1237
00:47:57,349 --> 00:47:55,119
the the phenomenon realizes it has an

1238
00:47:59,349 --> 00:47:57,359
inroad there with you and so it will

1239
00:48:01,589 --> 00:47:59,359
latch on to that

1240
00:48:03,750 --> 00:48:01,599
and and kind of follow you

1241
00:48:05,030 --> 00:48:03,760
but the question is the question is

1242
00:48:07,349 --> 00:48:05,040
right

1243
00:48:10,309 --> 00:48:07,359
and this is the difference between a

1244
00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:10,319
successful initiation and a failure is

1245
00:48:13,190 --> 00:48:11,359
that

1246
00:48:15,349 --> 00:48:13,200
where are you gonna go with it

1247
00:48:18,150 --> 00:48:15,359
you know how brave are you are you gonna

1248
00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:18,160
go are you gonna dive headlong into this

1249
00:48:23,109 --> 00:48:19,440
or

1250
00:48:25,990 --> 00:48:23,119
are you gonna resist it and run away

1251
00:48:27,670 --> 00:48:26,000
and uh most people

1252
00:48:30,390 --> 00:48:27,680
i think most people find that they're

1253
00:48:33,109 --> 00:48:30,400
kind of really not brave enough to face

1254
00:48:36,950 --> 00:48:33,119
it it's not it's not an easy thing it is

1255
00:48:39,510 --> 00:48:36,960
not an easy thing i have people who

1256
00:48:41,270 --> 00:48:39,520
come across my book in very paranormal

1257
00:48:43,270 --> 00:48:41,280
ways uh

1258
00:48:46,309 --> 00:48:43,280
similar to the way i came across the

1259
00:48:47,349 --> 00:48:46,319
caballon and sometimes they're suicidal

1260
00:48:48,710 --> 00:48:47,359
when they're talking to me because

1261
00:48:51,589 --> 00:48:48,720
they're like am i

1262
00:48:53,750 --> 00:48:51,599
am i going crazy what's what's happening

1263
00:48:54,950 --> 00:48:53,760
to me you know

1264
00:48:58,230 --> 00:48:54,960
and

1265
00:49:00,870 --> 00:48:58,240
that's one of the reasons why i am

1266
00:49:03,510 --> 00:49:00,880
all for disclosure you know this this

1267
00:49:06,069 --> 00:49:03,520
should have never been a secret ever

1268
00:49:07,750 --> 00:49:06,079
it's a part of the the natural universe

1269
00:49:10,790 --> 00:49:07,760
it's like saying that water is

1270
00:49:13,829 --> 00:49:10,800
classified or air is classified it's

1271
00:49:15,430 --> 00:49:13,839
just it's it simply is so let's talk

1272
00:49:17,270 --> 00:49:15,440
about it you know

1273
00:49:18,870 --> 00:49:17,280
yeah absolutely

1274
00:49:21,510 --> 00:49:18,880
so do you think disclosure will come you

1275
00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:21,520
know sooner rather than later and if so

1276
00:49:25,270 --> 00:49:23,200
where will it come from do you think

1277
00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:25,280
that the government are able to disclose

1278
00:49:28,630 --> 00:49:26,559
do you think they're not because they

1279
00:49:30,710 --> 00:49:28,640
don't understand it like where how do

1280
00:49:33,670 --> 00:49:30,720
you see things currently

1281
00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:33,680
um i think that there are very few

1282
00:49:37,829 --> 00:49:35,440
if if

1283
00:49:40,870 --> 00:49:37,839
i i there's there's almost no one who

1284
00:49:43,109 --> 00:49:40,880
understands this um

1285
00:49:46,950 --> 00:49:43,119
i i would say that

1286
00:49:48,710 --> 00:49:46,960
and that's very scary to me because uh

1287
00:49:51,589 --> 00:49:48,720
you know there's all kinds of theories

1288
00:49:53,030 --> 00:49:51,599
out there that are just bunk and and i

1289
00:49:55,270 --> 00:49:53,040
hate to think that people in the

1290
00:49:56,829 --> 00:49:55,280
government are latching on to some of

1291
00:49:59,510 --> 00:49:56,839
those bunk theories but i think

1292
00:50:01,190 --> 00:49:59,520
unfortunately some of them probably are

1293
00:50:03,990 --> 00:50:01,200
um

1294
00:50:05,109 --> 00:50:04,000
and uh that's unfortunate

1295
00:50:07,670 --> 00:50:05,119
um

1296
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:07,680
and you know i

1297
00:50:11,990 --> 00:50:09,839
uh so i i they don't they don't have any

1298
00:50:14,150 --> 00:50:12,000
idea what's going on there may be

1299
00:50:16,150 --> 00:50:14,160
individuals within

1300
00:50:17,349 --> 00:50:16,160
the apparatus that have an idea just

1301
00:50:18,390 --> 00:50:17,359
like i do

1302
00:50:20,790 --> 00:50:18,400
um

1303
00:50:22,549 --> 00:50:20,800
but of course you know

1304
00:50:24,549 --> 00:50:22,559
people being what they are

1305
00:50:27,190 --> 00:50:24,559
they'll say oh well that's just that's

1306
00:50:28,790 --> 00:50:27,200
just your opinion right you don't you

1307
00:50:30,470 --> 00:50:28,800
don't actually know what you're talking

1308
00:50:32,549 --> 00:50:30,480
about but

1309
00:50:34,309 --> 00:50:32,559
but that's not the truth of it

1310
00:50:37,190 --> 00:50:34,319
right and one of the one of the great

1311
00:50:39,510 --> 00:50:37,200
things about all of this that i think

1312
00:50:40,470 --> 00:50:39,520
um

1313
00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:40,480
that i think

1314
00:50:45,430 --> 00:50:42,960
has come out is just that

1315
00:50:48,150 --> 00:50:45,440
i was watching an interview with uh dr

1316
00:50:50,309 --> 00:50:48,160
gary nolan the other day it's kind of a

1317
00:50:52,390 --> 00:50:50,319
lesser known interview

1318
00:50:54,630 --> 00:50:52,400
the the podcast host wasn't very well

1319
00:50:56,230 --> 00:50:54,640
known but one of the things he said is

1320
00:50:58,630 --> 00:50:56,240
that there's some really good news in

1321
00:51:02,710 --> 00:50:58,640
this in that you know we have it in our

1322
00:51:05,349 --> 00:51:02,720
heads that with all of our problems and

1323
00:51:06,150 --> 00:51:05,359
that we can't possibly solve all of this

1324
00:51:08,470 --> 00:51:06,160
that

1325
00:51:10,390 --> 00:51:08,480
we're gonna end up destroying ourselves

1326
00:51:12,150 --> 00:51:10,400
right but there's good news in that

1327
00:51:14,870 --> 00:51:12,160
someone

1328
00:51:16,549 --> 00:51:14,880
was able to move past that

1329
00:51:18,549 --> 00:51:16,559
right now we have

1330
00:51:21,670 --> 00:51:18,559
kind of some evidence that

1331
00:51:22,549 --> 00:51:21,680
there's more right we we can get past

1332
00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:22,559
that

1333
00:51:27,910 --> 00:51:25,440
and so the question now becomes how do

1334
00:51:29,190 --> 00:51:27,920
we move from point a where we are now to

1335
00:51:31,430 --> 00:51:29,200
point b

1336
00:51:33,589 --> 00:51:31,440
where we kind of suspect they are

1337
00:51:35,990 --> 00:51:33,599
because they have all this high tech

1338
00:51:38,230 --> 00:51:36,000
it didn't destroy them they can use it

1339
00:51:40,470 --> 00:51:38,240
responsibly

1340
00:51:43,510 --> 00:51:40,480
so how do we get there

1341
00:51:45,109 --> 00:51:43,520
and that's the big question right and i

1342
00:51:49,190 --> 00:51:45,119
think that

1343
00:51:51,270 --> 00:51:49,200
things like philosophy and and theology

1344
00:51:53,270 --> 00:51:51,280
kind of answer those questions

1345
00:51:54,790 --> 00:51:53,280
right i don't think

1346
00:51:56,870 --> 00:51:54,800
i don't think a mathematician or a

1347
00:51:59,990 --> 00:51:56,880
physicist is going to be able to answer

1348
00:52:02,309 --> 00:52:00,000
that for you but uh but philosophy

1349
00:52:03,990 --> 00:52:02,319
certainly can

1350
00:52:05,829 --> 00:52:04,000
interesting absolutely and you mentioned

1351
00:52:07,349 --> 00:52:05,839
gary nolan there and you know he's been

1352
00:52:09,349 --> 00:52:07,359
involved with a lot of study of

1353
00:52:11,430 --> 00:52:09,359
experiences um

1354
00:52:14,630 --> 00:52:11,440
over the you know over time have you

1355
00:52:15,670 --> 00:52:14,640
ever been approached by anybody to to

1356
00:52:17,589 --> 00:52:15,680
you know be

1357
00:52:18,950 --> 00:52:17,599
looked at let's say by any of these

1358
00:52:19,910 --> 00:52:18,960
people

1359
00:52:21,430 --> 00:52:19,920
um

1360
00:52:23,990 --> 00:52:21,440
i you know i

1361
00:52:27,030 --> 00:52:24,000
there was i was aware of the study that

1362
00:52:29,589 --> 00:52:27,040
was happening um

1363
00:52:31,349 --> 00:52:29,599
while i was you know working at o and i

1364
00:52:33,829 --> 00:52:31,359
but i

1365
00:52:36,150 --> 00:52:33,839
i i was kind of too late to participate

1366
00:52:37,910 --> 00:52:36,160
in it so i to my knowledge my

1367
00:52:40,630 --> 00:52:37,920
information is not involved in that

1368
00:52:42,790 --> 00:52:40,640
study um

1369
00:52:44,390 --> 00:52:42,800
i i could be wrong i don't i don't know

1370
00:52:45,510 --> 00:52:44,400
but i don't think so

1371
00:52:48,549 --> 00:52:45,520
uh

1372
00:52:49,349 --> 00:52:48,559
i mean i never had any scans there was

1373
00:52:51,750 --> 00:52:49,359
right

1374
00:52:54,230 --> 00:52:51,760
uh certainly some talk of that but i i

1375
00:52:56,950 --> 00:52:54,240
never ended up getting any any brain

1376
00:53:00,230 --> 00:52:58,630
interesting so you mentioned that you're

1377
00:53:01,670 --> 00:53:00,240
obviously writing the new book is there

1378
00:53:03,670 --> 00:53:01,680
anything else that you've got going on

1379
00:53:06,069 --> 00:53:03,680
at the moment or always kind of that

1380
00:53:08,630 --> 00:53:06,079
kind of your main focus uh no i yeah

1381
00:53:11,109 --> 00:53:08,640
that's that's kind of my main focus i i

1382
00:53:13,990 --> 00:53:11,119
try to keep kind of a low profile i

1383
00:53:15,750 --> 00:53:14,000
don't uh i don't i don't there's so many

1384
00:53:18,470 --> 00:53:15,760
people that you know they they want

1385
00:53:20,470 --> 00:53:18,480
followers i just don't you you follow me

1386
00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:20,480
or don't i don't really care this the

1387
00:53:25,270 --> 00:53:24,000
choice is yours uh

1388
00:53:27,190 --> 00:53:25,280
you know

1389
00:53:28,790 --> 00:53:27,200
i mean if if you follow me i'm gonna

1390
00:53:31,670 --> 00:53:28,800
talk about some really interesting

1391
00:53:33,510 --> 00:53:31,680
things uh but uh

1392
00:53:35,750 --> 00:53:33,520
if you don't i'm i'm not gonna be

1393
00:53:38,630 --> 00:53:35,760
heartbroken about it and and i and i

1394
00:53:39,589 --> 00:53:38,640
certainly don't i i don't get wrapped up

1395
00:53:42,710 --> 00:53:39,599
in that

1396
00:53:45,589 --> 00:53:42,720
drama online too much

1397
00:53:47,829 --> 00:53:45,599
it's just it's nonsense that i that i

1398
00:53:51,109 --> 00:53:47,839
don't feel a need to participate in you

1399
00:53:52,630 --> 00:53:51,119
know yeah absolutely absolutely well i

1400
00:53:54,710 --> 00:53:52,640
look forward to the book coming out i've

1401
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:54,720
got your other book on my pile still to

1402
00:53:58,630 --> 00:53:57,280
read um i could just thank you enough

1403
00:54:00,630 --> 00:53:58,640
because this has been a fascinating

1404
00:54:03,109 --> 00:54:00,640
conversation and i've been following you

1405
00:54:05,430 --> 00:54:03,119
for some time and i really do appreciate

1406
00:54:07,430 --> 00:54:05,440
you and your outlook so yeah once again

1407
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:07,440
thank you so much okay thank you thank

1408
00:54:11,270 --> 00:54:09,760
you for having me vinnie my pleasure

1409
00:54:12,950 --> 00:54:11,280
everyone in the live chat thank you so

1410
00:54:14,309 --> 00:54:12,960
much i'm sorry i didn't get to all of

1411
00:54:15,430 --> 00:54:14,319
your questions

1412
00:54:17,670 --> 00:54:15,440
um

1413
00:54:20,230 --> 00:54:17,680
yeah thank you for being good as always

1414
00:54:21,670 --> 00:54:20,240
uh i'm gonna be back

1415
00:54:23,190 --> 00:54:21,680
next week

1416
00:54:25,030 --> 00:54:23,200
go and follow me on social medias to

1417
00:54:26,790 --> 00:54:25,040
find out who i'm i'm sorry i've been

1418
00:54:29,430 --> 00:54:26,800
redoing my schedules the last few days

1419
00:54:31,750 --> 00:54:29,440
and it's just completely confused me so

1420
00:54:33,510 --> 00:54:31,760
yeah um

1421
00:54:35,270 --> 00:54:33,520
oh nick brown thank you so much for the

1422
00:54:37,190 --> 00:54:35,280
donation

1423
00:54:39,030 --> 00:54:37,200
uh this is a unique the hitchhiker

1424
00:54:41,030 --> 00:54:39,040
element is real i'm on the isle of malls

1425
00:54:42,549 --> 00:54:41,040
scotland and i sense a presence above me

1426
00:54:45,030 --> 00:54:42,559
when i'm walking my dog i know it's

1427
00:54:46,309 --> 00:54:45,040
above me and with me it's personal i

1428
00:54:48,069 --> 00:54:46,319
guess that's a really good point i

1429
00:54:49,670 --> 00:54:48,079
suppose it is it's personal and it's up

1430
00:54:50,829 --> 00:54:49,680
to the individual how they perceive

1431
00:54:54,069 --> 00:54:50,839
things

1432
00:54:56,630 --> 00:54:54,079
so yeah really cool once again guys